INTERVIEW
In Conversation: Henry Holland & Kris Andrew Small
by George Morton
Sydney based artist Kris Andrew Small and British fashion designer Henry Holland teamed up this summer to create the artwork and visual identity for Henry’s new podcast ‘What Were You Thinking?’, in which Henry speaks with a different celebrity fashion icon each week about the looks that have shaped their lives.
As well as the overall creative identity, Kris was tasked with creating standout collage portraits of each of the podcast's guests, with some huge and household names taking part.
The two have been working closely on this project together, and we thought it would be interesting to initiate a broader, more open conversation between them about their individual practices. From opposite sides of the world, via the wonders of WhatsApp, the two creatives chatted about getting started in their respective careers, trying to find silver linings to a global lockdown, and the importance of authenticity in what they do.
Scroll down to read the full conversation 
by George Morton
Sydney based artist Kris Andrew Small and British fashion designer Henry Holland teamed up this summer to create the artwork and visual identity for Henry’s new podcast ‘What Were You Thinking?’, in which Henry speaks with a different celebrity fashion icon each week about the looks that have shaped their lives.
As well as the overall creative identity, Kris was tasked with creating standout collage portraits of each of the podcast's guests, with some huge and household names taking part.
The two have been working closely on this project together, and we thought it would be interesting to initiate a broader, more open conversation between them about their individual practices. From opposite sides of the world, via the wonders of WhatsApp, the two creatives chatted about getting started in their respective careers, trying to find silver linings in a global lockdown, and the importance of authenticity in what they do.
Scroll down to read the full conversation
L: Kris Andrew Small
R: Digital collage artwork
of Henry Holland for the WWYT podcast
Kris Andrew Small: Morning!
Henry Holland: Evening! How the hell are you?
HH: What time is it down there?
KAS: Haha I am doing well, feel like I have had a very productive day, and you? it’s just 6pm here :)
HH: To be fair I have already had a pretty productive day too I just did one of those online Instagram work outs and nearly chucked my guts up all over the dog so it’s pretty manic over here 
HH: How’s your lockdown been? Has it made you more productive? I guess you’re quite used to working on your own and self motivating?
KAS: hahaha oh dear, well I worked out with my trainer this morning & nearly threw up on him as well
KAS: Yeah, to be honest, lockdown for me was the same as before, we never had a full lockdown here, so I was luckily still able to go to my studio as I just share with my best friend. I kind of thought I would have all this time to make lots of personal work, but fortunately I was really busy with commercial jobs so it kept me really busy. I was also working on a project for a festival at the end of the year, so I felt like there was kind of a light at the end of the tunnel. I think the main thing is that I just wasn't really seeing people or going out, I was really able to get really into my projects and find new ways of working within what I already do. I also started painting, which is quite exciting.
"
My favourite piece of advice is "Never have a plan B or you'll never fully have a plan A". We're definitely both plan A people.
– Henry Holland
KAS: How was lockdown for you?
KAS: Motivation wise, I was kind of the same as before, I have this need to be productive all the time. So I find it easy to motivate myself, if I don't make something I get restless and can't enjoy myself
HH: Really fucking weird but also really nice. I’m not sure if you’re allowed to say that you quite enjoyed it but ... I did! I closed my business just before it hit over here and then lockdown was basically the world hitting pause and allowing me to take a breath and think about my next move. Starting the podcast was a great way to keep me busy and motivated and something I’d been wanting to do for about a year and thanks to lockdown I finally had the time. My biggest problem is the lack of travelling. I’m so used to being in airports this is the longest I haven’t flown in at least 10 years. And my husband and I were supposed to be coming to AUS for Christmas and New Years and that’s not going to happen which is devastating - as you know I LOVE aus and you australians!
HH: That’s exactly how I am but I realised that a lot of my motivation comes from a competitive spirit within me so when the world stopped working I allowed myself to and I’m just starting to kick back into gear now and my brain is on overload!
KAS: haha I know what you mean, it’s for sure not a good thing but I think any shit situation has a silver lining and this is a perfect example of that! My god, but closing your business just before, that would be such a trip at the best of times, let alone this. The travel thing.. I know.. its killing me too, last year I travelled so much for work, and I had the same plan this year, and just to see all those plans be cancelled indefinitely, so weird, since I was old enough to buy a plane ticket, I've had somewhere to go, and now to be not able to, kills me, it's such a source of inspiration for me, so I am kinda struggling with that. Also Australia feels far away at the best of times, let alone when it's then shut off from the rest of the planet.
KAS: Oh noooooo !! I didn't know you were going to come, we could have gone beach hopping!!! I'm not making this better am I?
HH: No.
Portrait collages of Eve and Gigi Goode, by Kris Andrew Small.
HH: How long have you been working commercially? And what are your main references in your signature style that we worked within for the podcast artwork? Are you constantly looking about for colour combinations, graphic ideas and wording? I find it hard to shut that down and then it feels like you're constantly working! Even when you’re in a club and someone is wearing a cool tee or print you catch yourself thinking of how you could use it and create something with it. I think that’s the nature of having a creative brain right? We’re like sponges! it can be totally exhausting but I wouldn’t change it right?
KAS: We should start a company haha... between the 2 of us we would compete like crazy.
HH: That’s an excellent idea - we can work on the logistics when George isn’t listening in!
KAS: So commercially, only about 2 years, I was kinda just a Graphic Designer before, I worked for big advertising agencies and things, I thought it made sense, but it never really fitted me tbh, so one day I just walked out of some meeting about a fast food chain or something shit, I just couldn't pretend anymore. I went camping for a week, came back and had an exhibition (my first) a month later, that was September 2018, and since then it's been my full time job, which I realise is insanely lucky. I still pinch myself, imposter syndrome and all that. Reference wise, I'm all over the place, I think I always look backwards for reference, my favourite artists are all like, New York 80s, Keith Haring, Jean Paul Goude, Basquiat etc. That time, that energy & that scene, I can never find something cooler than that, so I always go back to that.
KAS: I was really excited to work on the podcast with you as no one had really properly commissioned me to make the collages before, and you had so many amazing guests that it meant I got to put a lot of people that I idolised in my work. When you sent me the picture of EVE I nearly screamed haha. Also I was always a big fan of your work & your type work earlier in your career, so for you to be commissioning me to make type, was a bit surreal & incredibly exciting!!!
"
I always look backwards for reference, my favourite artists are all like, New York 80s, Keith Haring, Jean Paul Goude, Basquiat etc. That time, that energy & that scene, I can never find something cooler than that, so I always go back to that.
– Kris Andrew Small
KAS: What was it that made you want to do the podcast initially?
HH: It’s a topic that I could talk for hours about with anyone. I’m genuinely fascinated by the power of clothes to change how we feel and how people see us and that was such a huge driver in my work. I loved creating a character every season and then dressing her and putting her into different scenarios. So the podcast is like a recording of what I would love to chat to these well known people about if I ever met them and then I have them locked in for an hour! It’s so much fun. I’m looking forward to speaking to some designers too to hear about the relationship they have with the clothes they create as well as the ones they wear
HH: I reckon you get a bit Steve jobs about clothes after a while and look for a uniform when you’re designing and creating them all the time it can wear you down. That’s when I knew it was the right time to step back from my business as it had stopped filling me with joy and that’s all I am about.
HH: If I’m not enjoying myself I find it so hard to be focused and committed and the business had got a little heavy tbh. The stress was weighing me down
HH: We have such similar starts to our careers. I was working in magazines and quit at Christmas and my first on schedule fashion show was 6 weeks later and then boom been doing it ever since... we’re like the poster boys for following your dreams
HH: Company name sorted: “poster boys”
KAS: That’s super interesting, it is a funny thing isn't it, it's so easy to get stuck in something and forget why you love it, sometimes ending something you love is such a tough decision but it can lead to many new ideas and a refreshed creativity & how exciting to have a clean slate but know you have already really made something of your life!
HH: Yeah I guess I just wish I had a bigger house (and maybe a boat) to show for it
KAS: hahah !!! omg POSTER BOYS !!! I love this so much !!! No but you’re right, like I think you’re fed with so much 'follow your dreams, but have a backup" which is smart sure, but it just quashes any form of creativity, I was so unhappy in advertising, that I just got to a point where I was like, well I have nothing to lose, nothing could be worse than this surely you know.
HH: My favourite piece of advice is “never have a plan B or you’ll never fully believe in plan A”. We’re definitely both plan A people
Portrait collages of Alexa Chung and Pixie Geldof, by Kris Andrew Small.
KAS: When you just quit & started your own company, what was the first thing you did, or the first thing that you realised you were on to something and that it could work out?
HH: Well I’d already started making my t-shirts and they were getting some real attention by the time I quit and to be honest the first 5 years of the business was really just trying to take advantage of every opportunity that presented itself and keep up! It was so crazy. I really believe in the notion of saying yes to everything which has got me in a lot of trouble before! but professionally it allowed me to explore all opportunities that came my way
KAS: So other than the podcast & your juice cleanse.... what have you been working on since closing up shop? Or are you sworn to secrecy?
HH: I’m working on a few consultancy projects at the moment and just trying to formulate a bigger plan for my next move. It’s such a crazy time for the industry right now that I think it’s not a bad idea to watch and wait for a minute and see how things look once the world is back up and running again.
KAS: I love this... I honestly believe that if you just really commit to an idea, and make what comes out completely naturally you can’t lose. You just have to keep going & keep going until it works. I never really felt complete before cos I had all these ideas on the world and I didn’t have any way to express them. Once I started making my work as a vehicle to express these ideas, I felt almost complete and it gave me some sort of peace. Funnily enough that's also when people started responding to my work.
KAS: YES!!! ok 3rd company name... 'SAY YES' sounds a little like a cult... but... I so agree...
KAS: Leaving yourself open to any opportunity that comes your way is such a good way to approach things, sure it can get you in strife, but better than regretting what could have been. I am still just so excited that people want to interact with my work that I feel almost guilty saying no to things... like I am being ungrateful or something.
HH: Authenticity will always be what sets creative work apart in my opinion. Once you find that then you really hit your stride. Plus how exhausting trying to be something you're not. That in itself takes so much energy that you should be putting into your work
KAS: That's very exciting !! Oh yeah... if there has ever been a time for reflection it's now for sure !
HH: Totally know what you mean. Plus there’s the commercial element. Who says no to money?! Not me.
"
Authenticity will always be what sets creative work apart in my opinion. Once you find that then you really hit your stride.
– Henry Holland
KAS: When everything started to take off for you... did it just feel so surreal, or did you kind of feel like, no no this was always meant to be and it's just now that it's happening?
HH: Omg no it felt surreal things were so fast and I was not prepared but that was part of the fun and also why I think people responded well because they could see it wasn’t a contrived pre planned thing and I was just a chancer having a go.
KAS: For sure, they could see the honesty in it and the raw talent as well. It just must have been the most exciting thing ever ! What's cool is that you probably have so many more similar moments like that in your life, of projects that will just change everything again & again.
HH: I really hope so. I still feel 22 like I was when I started House of Holland so I hope there’s another project like that to come..
KAS: omg you were 22!! wow
HH: Actually I lied - 23
HH: I’m excited to see more of your painting and I love your two page project. Would you like to do a book eventually?
KAS: awe thank you! It's something I kept putting off as I've always just been so digital based, but I just wanted something in my career to be a bit more tangible... also I didn't always just want to sell prints... I think it's so nice for people to get a nice finished painting that there is just one of you know, there is something really personal in that.
KAS: You had such an amazing scene around you as well, maybe not that far off the kinda Keith Haring / Madonna / Basquiat situation. Were you aware of that, or was it just like oh these are my friends that make art as well?
HH: bit of both I guess because you never look at your situation from the outside in but it’s hard not to notice how other people perceive things. That was another thing that worked at the time I guess too all of my friends were genuine relationships and not contrived as part of the industry
KAS: Funny.. that's kinda what Madonna said haha...
"
It's so easy to get stuck in something and forget why you love it, sometimes ending something you love is such a tough decision but it can lead to many new ideas and a refreshed creativity
– Kris Andrew Small
HH: Ok I have one last question... who would be your dream collage to make (I’m looking for guest inspo) would be fun to surprise you with the pic of your all time fave...?
KAS: eeeekkkkk.... can I pick 3??? Cos I just can’t pick....
HH: Yes 3 is even better
KAS: in no particular order.... Rihanna, M.I.A. & Madonna :)
HH: Ok that should keep me going
KAS: ahhaaha
KAS: just some small names you know. Up and coming artists
HH: I’ve worked with two of them...
KAS: that gives me goosebumps... im such a sucker for celebrities
KAS: in my head im a 16 year old girl
HH: I say that all the time!!!
KAS: hahaha.... said all gay men....
HH: Was so fun to chat
HH: Have a wonderful evening and I’m going to start my day!!
KAS: Thank you, thanks for chatting, it was so fun to talk about everything, thank you again so much for bringing me onto this project, it’s been one of my favourites to date!! enjoy your day & phone rihanna please to get her on the podcast!
Portrait collages of Beth Ditto and Jake Shears, by Kris Andrew Small.
About Kris Andrew Small
Sydney based artist & designer, Kris Andrew Small, creates abstract, energetic and flamboyant pieces using photo-based collage, texture and typography. He has collaborated with a broad range of clients including Adobe, Nike, Samsung and Sydney Opera House.
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